Vinesse Wine Club Reviews

Vinesse Wine Club
( 19 reviews )

The Vinesse Wine Club, located online at, was established 20 years ago as a monthly wine club with the purpose of attempting to make interesting wines accessible to the average consumer.

Vinesse says they are one of the largest and most respected wine clubs in the country, specializing in finding little known wines from small wineries which average wine lovers would not be able to find anywhere, unless they happened to attend the winery itself.

They also like to provide a guide to their wines, including giving their customers the wine’s story as well as recipes for the foods that will pair best with that month’s wine selection.

When you sign up for the club, you must provide them with an address where you or someone else over the age of 21 can personally sign for the delivery. Vinesse will deliver to your place of business if this is easiest for you. 


Unfortunately, however, there are some states which will not allow you to receive wine in the mail. These include states like Alabama, Arkansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and many others.

If you do live in a state which allows wine shipments, however, you can choose to receive red wines, white wines, or a mixture of the two varieties. Vinesse says their goal is to only provide you with wines you will like.

To that end, if you have complaints that a wine is damaged or you do not enjoy it, you can call customer service at the phone number 800-823-5527 to either request a refund for that month or a replacement wine. You can also choose to skip a month if you are going on vacation, or for any reason.

And, if you decide the membership is no longer beneficial to you, you can cancel at any time, and for any reason. This club requires no minimum purchases or minimum time commitment.

If you have any experience with Vinesse Wine Club, please leave your reviews below.

Vinesse Wine Club Customer Reviews

  • Sort Reviews By:

Believe the other bad reviews. RUN AWAY from this rip off company
July 16, 2021

I agree with the others that this company is HORRIBLE. No pre-shipment notifications, deceitful email promotions, terrible customer service, and average to plonk wine to boot. I should have listened to the other bad reviews. Oh, and when I spoke with their "customer service" (a misnomer), they were not helpful, argumentative (in a "polite" way) and basically rude.

When I mentioned that I guess I should have believed the bad reviews, their response was that these are from dissatisfied customers, not their large number of customers. What a load of line... RUN RUN AWAY from this rip-off company!!! I wish I had...

Rip Off club, no customer service
July 9, 2021
Their club is terrible. Overpriced wine, no notification of shipment, no customer service. I am in several wine clubs (i.e., Naked Wines, Splash Wines, Wall Street Journal wines, multiple winery clubs), they are all trying to provide a good customer experience. Not these guys, they are a total rip off. Try one of the other clubs, much better experience

Vinesse is a TOTAL SCAM operating interstate commerce.
January 5, 2021

Did not honor my online installment purchase cancellation. Next bus day, they double charged for order I had cancelled prior business day. Called them, they only would cancel one order ( the less expensive order unsurprisingly).

NEVER credited my AMERICAN AIRLINES frequent flyer program with 5k points as promoted in original offer on AA AirMall website. The order they refused to cancel is GROSSLY OVER PRICED ,($155.60) vs original written offer of 6 bottles @ $16.00 each.

Never sent me a single “ Preview System” email which are supposed to outline orders pre-shipment for my approval. CSR I spoke with put me on ridiculous hold for Supervisor, then told me would receive call back from a Supervisor, which of course never happened.

Without question Vinesse and it’s corporate logo’d online wine club programs are both a SCAM AND HAVE INCOMPETENT ORDER FULFILLMENT SYSTEMS.

ALL READERS; Avoid Vinesse like the Covid plague!!!

Won't stop shipping!
April 6, 2020

After initial shipment was received, wine was ok, but I decided I would purchase locally.

On Mar 20, another case arrived. I refused shipment and disputed MasterCard charge.

On the same day, they shipped another case which I have also refused and disputed the charge.

Poor customer service; not notifying you of upcoming shipments and refusing to acknowledge cancellation.

TeresaBradshaw May 18, 2020

I canceled my bra wine club because I did not like the wines. Still got another shipment. Do not send me any more wine.Teresa Bradshaw 134 Old Mill Race Rd.Church Hill Tn.37642 I will pay for this shipment but will refuse any more wine coming to me

TeresaBradshaw May 18, 2020

This is the way I feel about your wines these are not good wines at all that are pushed on people no matter that the wine is no good. The wines made in Tennessee are outstanding.Maybe you should try them.

Very Questionable
October 21, 2019

I came home today to find a box of 6 bottles of wine I did not order waiting for me. My son (who is underage) signed for the box, not knowing what it was. I immediately called the company and wanted to know why I was sent this wine. They said they received a post card from me and also a phone call. I did neither. When I asked for the method of payment, they gave me a charge card number that I do not own. No idea if a charge is going to show up on an actual valid card of mine.

I have no idea who enrolled me or why they would allow an underage person to sign for something I did not order. Now I am facing a fee for 'restocking' and also a shipping fee to return the product? Since I have no record of the charge card number they gave me, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with this wine, but I am going to continue to investigate this issue.

TeresaBradshaw May 18, 2020

I did not use a charge card.i I don't know whose card they used on the order. I canceled the wine club I don't know what else to do.No wine should come to this home again.

June 26, 2019
I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER OF viness for approx 10 years because i can earn Hawaiian miles i have called several times over the ten years but this time they did not answer Vinesse wines. They answered NRA i was very surprised and asked if this was vinesse wines or did i have the wrong number? The operator told me they are partnets with NRA. I asked how long they had been NRA and she said for a long time but they had chaned to NRA but still sold .vinesse wines. I told jher i wanted to cancel my account. I am not a supporter of NRA and she said the wine was on its way for delivery but i could refuse to accept it and they would refund me the money as soon as they got the wine back. I decided to accept the last shipment because they had already charged my account and i didn't want to go thru a hassle getting a trfund. I told her i am not a gun supporter and would never have been a customer if I had known their affiliation with NRA.. Just in case some of you members have not called recently i wanted to tellyou you are supporting NRA with every purchase you make. .

LH November 04, 2019

Vienesse - Hawaiian Arlines - United Airlines and NRA all together?

Bad business practices
November 17, 2017
This review is about their business practices and not their wines. You have to be home to sign for the delivery and then they charge you 15% when it has to be shipped back to them. It would have been very easy to just state someone must be home to sign for the package. I knew I could not do that. Instead, they intentionally do not say that. I would still be a member if not for this single, easy to fix item because I would have just shipped it to my work. They offered to do just that after the fact but I don't want to do business with a company that isn't upfront about an obviously known issue. I cancelled immediately.

John June 21, 2018

It's the law that in order to receive alcohol you have to be 21 or over. It's not the company's fault that you did not know the law. Seriously, how could you not know this?

rip off
May 25, 2017
I sent my Introductory for $49.99 in on 4/28 by snail mail (which means they received it by at least May 2). The wines arrived and were OK. I read all of the literature, including that they would send out a delivery every month. On 5/24 I called to cancel because their shipping charges are outrageous and more than other wine clubs I use. I was considering subscribing for a cheaper club but then the representative told me that my new shipment had already been sent out. I told him that it wasn't yet a month since I ordered and received no notice of a shipment and he said "We don't notify you and the shipments take 3 weeks to get to you. That is why we sent it already." 3 weeks? Are you kidding me? The first shipment they sent arrived one week after they received my order. 3 weeks delivery time in 2017 is hogwash. I asked him the price I would have to pay for this delivery and he said that for the 6 bottles sent, it was $123.49. Their wines were worth only half of that amount. If I decided to refuse the shipment they would charge my card $45 for the return of the box of wine. Be very careful if you take the Introductory Offer. Cancel immediately or they will send out a shipment and make you pay through the nose. Also, they never offered me the choice of frequency of delivery, the number of bottles or whether I wanted red, white or mixed. A real rip-off company. Best to stay away. Try Laithwaites instead. They let you know when a delivery is scheduled in time to postpone and offer free shipping periodically. I have free shipping for a year and order from them regularly. They are honest and although some prices are high, they offer specials and their shipping rates are much cheaper than Vinesse.

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello Elizabeth,

Thank you for your feedback regarding your experience. We would like to apologize for any misunderstanding when taking part of one of our wine clubs. With our wine clubs being on an automatic renewal basis, we have set shipment dates each month for each of the wine clubs we offer. The standard shipments contain 6 bottles of wine, per your wine preference selection when enrolling. Our members are able to customize practically every aspect of their wine club because we understand not all wine lovers have the same needs. Such changes include altering shipment dates (delay), bottle count, wine preference/club, and the shipment frequency. These changes can be made by logging into your web account on our website and managing your wine club(s) yourself, utilizing our live chat and allowing a representative to assist you, sending an email request to [email protected], or by calling our Customer Support Center at 1(800)-823-552. Our hours of operation are Monday – Friday 6:00am – 5:00pm PST. We generally quote 10-14 business days for a shipment to arrive from the date it leaves our facility in Napa, CA. Shipments can often come sooner, but we try to account for any delays that might occur. If you feel anything is amiss regarding your account, we would love to take a look at this for you.

December 6, 2016

Run do not walk from this rip-off. The day I cancelled, they immediately send the next order and lied about the date they sent it.

I returned the shipment but still cost $70.00 .

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello Gabe,

Thank you for your feedback regarding your experience with our wine club, as it is important to us that all our members have nothing less than a positive experience. We would like to apologize for any confusion that may have been caused during the time you were enrolled with us. Looking over your membership history, we do see that you received a total of two shipments from the American Cellars Wine Club. We received notification of your request to cancel on 10/21/16 and promptly closed your membership. We also show that your 2nd shipment left our facility on 10/12/16, which is why you received an additional shipment. When you called us to cancel your membership, the shipment that was already in progress should have been communicated to you and we apologize if this wasn’t the case.

With regards to the $70 charge you incurred, we do not show any record of this, but would love to resolve this for you. Please contact our customer support department at 1-(800)-823-5527, our hours of operation are Monday – Friday 6:00am – 5:00 pm PST so we can research this further and hopefully resolve any outstanding issues.

Unethical business practices
October 24, 2016
Buyer beware. These guys are not legit. I received, and was charged for, three cases of wine within the first 8 days. I refused shipment on two of them, but the charges remained over a month later. Their website does not allow you to remove any wine club subscriptions - only add additional ones. Plus they send seasonal shipments that you must opt-out of by going to their website months ahead of time. In my opinion, Vinesse and American Wine Cellars are very unethical and deceitful. On top of all that, their wines are average at best.

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello Kane,

We appreciate your feedback and review, as we certainly do not want to leave our members feeling that we are not legit! We strive to ensure that each of our member’s expectations are met above and beyond what you would experience with any other wine club. We show that you enrolled into two additional wine clubs, the Grab Bag Wine Club and the Elevant Wine Club, as well as the American Cellars Wine Club, which is the reason for the three charges you mentioned. We apologize if this was unintentional, but would love to get that taken care of for you. While it was correct that you were unable to cancel online at the time, we have since added that feature so that our members are now able to do so. Our tasting department carefully selects wines from wineries who have fine-tuned their craft into unique and special varietals to be sent to you, however we do understand that everyone’s wine preferences are unique. It is for this reason that we have our satisfaction guarantee and will replace any bottles you deem unsatisfactory within 45 days. We show that when you contacted our Customer Support Center, the refund you desired was taken care of over the phone. We do have a holiday shipment that we provide during the holiday season due to the increase in demand for wines during this time of year and many of our members love this service. We send letters one month prior to the shipment to remind our members that they may opt out either online or by calling our customer service department. Again, we would like to apologize for any misunderstanding in this matter when you were using our services and hope that you consider Vinesse in the future.

Kane Francetich June 14, 2017

Your "customer service" representative was not at all helpful and the "refund" included high restocking and non-refundable fees. Your company is unethical and dishonest. I appreciate that you took the time to respond (8 months later) but it does not change the fact that you have business practices that are swindling people out of their money. You want to make things right? Refund all of the money except the original amount for the first purchase. Respectfully, Kane.

October 12, 2016

I tried their wines. Nothing special. I decided that I no longer wanted to be a member when I received a notice for a wine shipment in the following month. They charged me $30 to cancel.

I think they are scamming people.

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello John,

Thank you for your feedback, as we always welcome the opportunity to make things right with our members. We would like to apologize for any misunderstanding about our wine club. Our wine directors do their very best to try and pick out the cream of the crop when it comes to the wines we provide for our members. We’ve been in this industry for 25 years, and have been able to build long-lasting and meaningful relationships with wineries from all over the globe. This has allowed us to be able to offer wines that you would not otherwise be able to try. We understand that not all wine lovers share the same love for every wine. We do have our satisfaction guarantee in which we will replace any wine you deem unsatisfactory within a 45 day period, at no cost, in your next wine club shipment. If you don’t have an upcoming wine club shipment, you can still take part in receiving replacements, we simply ask that you cover the shipping cost for the replacement bottles. You are able to choose the varietal when selecting replacements to better ensure that you will enjoy the wines being sent to you. We don’t have, nor have we ever had, a cancellation fee. Please call us if there are any charges unexplained. A representative would be happy to go over your membership with you. Our customer support department can be reached at 1-(800)-823-5527, our hours of operation are Monday – Friday 6:00am – 5:00 pm PST. Again, we would like to apologize for any misunderstanding in this matter.

No worth the headaches!
October 1, 2015
Delivering wine is a tricky situation because someone 21 year or over has to sign. So it's a crap shoot if you're even home. I wasn't home for a delivery so their shipping company left a notice. I called them and arranged for a delivery the next day between 8AM and 12PM. No one showed, I had to leave my home. Then they attempted another delivery late that same day, no one home to sign. I had already wasted 4 hours of my time (and this was not the first incident). Since this wasn't the first time I called customer service and cancelled my subscription for the reason of THEIR DELIVERY COMPANY IS A WASTE OF TIME. I then got a condescending email telling me that my subscription was cancelled, and because I refuse the shipment to be delivered at another time (yep, the one that didn't come when I waited for 4 hours) I was being charged a 15% re-stocking fee plus all shipping. The wines were mediocre at best. Sorry that I let the lure of American Airlines Advantage Miles ever get me involved with this company. Do not sign-up, not worth the headaches involved, including from their wine choices. Shame on you American Airlines, bad choice!

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello Cheri,

Thank you for the feedback in this matter. We would like to apologize for any inconvenience that may have occurred during your time with us as this is not a goal of ours as a wine provider. Due to the nature of shipping alcoholic items, it is a federal law to require an adult signature of someone of the age of 21+ to be available to sign for wine club shipments. This is going to be the case with all companies who offer an at-home delivery service for wine. We understand that many of our members maintain busy schedules due to work or other arrangements in which they cannot be home for our deliveries. Generally, we recommend to have your wine club shipments sent to your place of occupation to ensure someone is able to sign for your shipment. Many of our members find this a convenient and easy alternative to shipping the wines to your home. If this isn’t a viable option, another alternative is to have the shipment held at a nearby pickup location. We are able to request the shipments to be held for you to better accommodate your busy schedule. We find that these adjustments make receiving your wine club shipment easier and more convenient for our members. If you could contact our Customer Support Team, we’d be more than happy to discuss the restocking fee that was applied to your refund total. We can be reached at 1-(800)-823-5527, our hours of operation are Monday – Friday 6:00am – 5:00 pm PST.

December 15, 2014

I am writting regarding a promotion US airways sending to me by email last month. It's saying 'Act today and you'll earn a total of 5,000 bonus Dividend Miles® with your first two wine club shipments and enjoy six of Italy's finest wines for only $9.75 per bottle, including 1¢ shipping with your first shipment. Plus, get a 6-piece Cellar Master wine tote (a $37.95 value) and earn 5 bonus miles per $1 spent on all future wine purchases.'

I clicked the website it's saying first shipment is 41.94 including shipping. But I was charged $224.40! this is rip-off. I have to pay $60 to return them because they are heavy. I just want you be aware of this. and I am very sure I am not the first one to complain this.

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello Amanda,

We’re so sorry this happened. We uphold all our promotional pricing. Please contact us if you feel you were charged an incorrect amount so we can look into this and resolve the issue. It is of utmost importance to us to ensure that we are delivering the services we advertise at the price we list them at!

Cancelled membership, then 3 months later another shipment
December 2, 2014

I got my wine and shortly thereafter, my miles back in August 2014. As soon as I had the miles, I immediately cancelled my membership on their website. Then, 3 months later, I was looking at my credit card account info and saw a pending charge for $224.40 from Vinesse. I went to the Vinesse website and logged in and saw that they were charging me for 6 bottles of wine. I immediately called them and they said they would try to stop the shipment. Within 10 minutes I received an email saying that they couldn't stop the shipment (even though it took another 4 days for the automated shipping notification email to be sent to me.) and they sent me another email with a link to request a credit. I filled out the credit request form online, and nothing.... I called and they said it could take 10 days for the credit department to call me back... nothing... I called back and they said a manager would call me back... nothing.

I called my CC company and have contested the charge. Now, we'll see if they call back.

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello Gyan,

Thank you for your feedback as this will help us improve the services we offer, which is always our goal! Looking over your membership, we show that this enrollment was done online through one of our promotions offering miles in exchange for wine club shipments. It looks like you might have accidentally unsubscribed from our emails instead of your wine club. We apologize for the confusion as we show the first contact you had made to us was after your 2nd wine club shipment had finished processing. We were unable to stop this shipment as it had left our facility in route to you. It looks like this issue has since been resolved for you, and we were able to fully reimburse you for this shipment. Please let us know if there are any remaining concerns.

April 21, 2014
after getting an american airlines invite for this i thought give it a try ,i liked the idea getting miles for every dollar spent and 2500 miles extra for entering their scam...good joke. i stayed for three months,paid like 300 us for wines worth maybe 60 us in total,all of them by unknown and cheap national and southafrican companies and never ever saw one mile on my aa frequent flyer (platinum executive) account.i called them ,cancelled any future orders , and they told me ''no,the mileage promotion has expired miles for you'' darn schmuck ! be careful,do not join these bastards ! they lie,steal and send you trash. i am monitoring now absolutely my credit card bills....i am conidering reporting them to the fbi for fraud and wire not do business with these crooks !!!!!!!

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello Adrian,

Thank you for your feedback regarding your experience with one of our wine clubs. We would like to apologize for any misunderstanding regarding a promotion that was offered to you. We do our best to honor every promotion to the best of our ability and would love the opportunity to ensure you’ve been given every mile you’re entitled to. When one promotion expires, another often begins. On average, we award roughly 2.6 million miles to our members on a weekly basis. Our wine directors search far and wide for new and exotic wines to be sent to our members. Many of these wines have won countless awards in various categories and are highly rated amongst wine makers and wine lovers. We understand that not every wine we select is going to be a home run, as everyone has a different palate for wines. For this reason, we have our satisfaction guarantee in place to ensure you are receiving wines you find of quality. Again, we would like to apologize for any misunderstanding during your time with us.

Fake wine labels
January 27, 2014
I've received two shipments for a total of 9 bottles. Each one of them had exactly the same cork, even though they were from supposedly different wineries. The descriptions of the wine on the back labels and the winery names themselves all seem fake and made up. I googled the winery name of all 6 bottles from the last shipment and low and behold, there is no evidence of those wineries address, no web site, no nothing. When i called Vinesse customer support the rep didn't believe me that each bottle had exactly the same style and logo cork becuse she said that would be impossible...when I offered to send her a photo of the corks, she put me on hold and then came back with a story about how it's possible but she didn't know, and she would have someone call me. I've never received a call or an explanation as to why all of my wines are from wineries that apparently don't exist except in Vinesse's warehouse. I called again and asked for the address of two of the Santa Rosa area wineries and the rep told me she couldn't provide that information. This feels to me like they are just making up wine labels and slapping them on generic bottles of wine. By the way, the wines taste very poor and cheap.

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello Andrew,

Our members' satisfaction with the quality and value of our wine selections is our highest priority. All our wines pass a rigorous and competitive review by our highly experienced tasting panel. We source wines in many different ways, including directly from wineries in the US and abroad, through distributors and through trusted wholesalers and importers. Sometimes, we act as a "negociant" and work directly with foreign and domestic wineries to produce custom wines for our customers but that cannot be labeled with existing brand names. These negociant wines must be labeled with unique new and distinct names to protect existing brands and sources. Sometimes, our best values for our customers are found through negociant arrangements as existing high quality wines are sold for far less than their full price to us and the savings are passed to our members. Many of these wines have won countless awards in various categories, including quality, in numerous competitions. If ever you are unsatisfied with the wine selected for you for any reason, you are welcome to make use of our satisfaction guarantee.

Don't buy from this company!
May 10, 2013

I signed up upon getting an email from Vinesse promoting that they were working with American Airlines and would give me 2000 miles after the first month and 3000 miles after the second month.

The first shipment arrived as promised and I did receive the 2000 miles for the first month. However, they double charged my credit card. When I called them to report this, they said I must have hit submit twice by accident when I signed up for the club. Maybe, but the only problem with this theory is that they only sent me one shipment of wine, not 2 shipments like they say I accidentally signed up for.

It seemed like they just double charged me hoping I wasn't checking my credit card statement and hoping I wouldn't notice.

They did refund the money for the double charge. Then I received the second month's shipment. The shipping charge was very high so I decided to cancel my membership since it wasn't worth paying $130 a month for 6 bottles of mediocre wine.

They never gave me the 3000 bonus miles for the second month's shipment of wine even though I received and paid for the wine. I have called several times and even though the representatives were polite and said they would look into it, they refused to give me the 3000 miles as promised for the second month.

Finally, AA decided to reimburse me the miles from their end since they felt bad that a company they were affiliated with had cheated me.

Do not order anything from this company as they will try to scam you, not reward you as promised, and send you overpriced and mediocre wine.

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello Kevin,

We’re very sorry to hear that you had anything but a pleasant experience when using our wine club service! We strive to ensure that all aspects of our services are upheld. Regarding the duplicate charges, we apologize for any inconvenience but are glad that the charges were taken care of. There are times when members accidentally submit two orders when enrolling into our wine club promotion. When this is done, our system catches the duplicate order and cancels it but a pre-authorization might be placed on your card for the duplicate. In cases like this, the charge takes care of itself within 2-5 business days and drops off your account all together. In the meantime, it would appear as if you were double charged for your order. On average, we award roughly 2.6 million miles to our members on a weekly basis through various promotions. We would love to look into this issue if you are missing any miles from the promotion you enrolled into. If you feel something is amiss, please call our customer support at 1-(800)-823-5527, our hours of operation are Monday – Friday 6:00am – 5:00 pm PST so we can research this further and hopefully resolve any errors that may have occurred.

Lies and More Lies
April 25, 2013
Overpriced wine that is so so, but I was lied to on multiple occasions. Deferred a shipment, which they acknowledged but ignored and sent anyway. Was told on 4/19 that it had been shipped and could not be called back. Got a UPS notice that on 4/25 they still did not have possession, so it was still in their warehouses. Was told I would get a full credit but only recorded a 50% credit. Called back, said I would get a full credit if I returned the wine. Finally got them to stop the shipment on 4/25 scheduled delivery for 4/26 when I told them no one would be there to accept it. Said they couldn't issue a second credit but would send me a check for the balance.

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello John,

Thank you for your feedback. This will help us in improving the services we offer to our members. We would like to apologize for any misunderstanding in this matter regarding our shipping processes. When we send out a shipment to a member, it leaves our facility on temperature controlled trucks. The shipment doesn’t have tracking during this time and is not in the hands of the courier, so while the shipment appears to be making no progress, it’s in route to you. With regards to your credit, we would be happy to look into this matter for you further, if you could please either provide us with your member number or contact our Customer Support Center. We can be reached at 1-800-823-5527 and our hours of operation are Monday – Friday 6:00 AM – 5:00 PM PST. We would be happy to get this matter resolved for you.

They don't have a way to cancel
March 25, 2013
I tried out one shipment and the wine was ehh, ok. I have been trying to cancel and all I get is a "all circuits are busy", they don't have online help nor a way to cancel without calling them. Such a pain

Vinesse June 13, 2017

Hello Darryl,

Thank you for your feedback in regards to this matter. We would like to apologize for any inconvenience you may have come across when trying to cancel your membership with us. It sounds like you may have been trying to reach us outside of our hours of operation. Our hours of operation are Monday – Friday 6:00 AM – 5:00 PM PST. You are able to deactivate any wine clubs you are enrolled into with us by logging into your Member Service Portal online. Simply click on the link My Account (Login), enter your account credentials, and then click on any wine memberships that you no longer wish to partake in. We do show that you were able to get ahold of us to close your membership, and we would like to say thank you for giving us a shot!