Larry Williams Reviews
Larry Williams, of I Really Trade, is a well known commodities trader and author with materials dating back to the early eighties.
In these past three decades he has written several best sellers and has secured his reputation as a trading expert.
There are several reasons why Larry Williams and his books have become so popular. He gained much credibility when a book that he published correctly predicted the upswing of the market at a time when the majority was forecasting a slowdown.
Moreover, Larry Williams shocked people in 1987 with his impressive results at the Robbins World Cup Trading Championship.
Throughout the event Williams was able to turn $10,000 into a little more than one million dollars. To this day results like that haven’t been reported; supposedly this is why some have accused him of foul play at that tournament.
Larry Williams is also known for developing and teaching his own trading system. His methods have been called unconventional and at times risky.
However, each trader should have their own system that is tailored to their financial situation, risk/loss threshold, and emotions.
His trading style does not rely heavily on charts so much as it does on indicators and timing tools that he has personally developed. These are known as the Williams %R and the Ultimate Oscillator.
If you have any experience with Larry Williams or I Really Trade, please leave your reviews below.
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Larry is a great guy...
There is an old proverb that simply states; those that do, do, and those that don't teach.
Retired in Thailand
I read what I believe was his first book, some 25 years ago.
I found it fascinating, and spent some time looking at CFTC CO reports.....but I was busy "making a living".
I loaned the book to somebody, can't remember whom, and never got it back.
Five years ago, after "retiring" , I started coaching my wife on gold futures trading here in Thailand based on what I could remember from his book, plus a couple of other commentators who I selected to follow because they focused on the same COMEX trading and CFTC COT reports.
It has gone quite well.
I have to wonder where I would be now if I had worked less and traded those 20 years.
It is not an easy business
Everyone has to work hand and think before taking actions, rather than trade blindly. I trade outside US market by using what Larry's taught in his books, online courses... IT ALSO WORKS!
Larry has pointed out where is the moon. What we focus is not his finger nor arm. The DIRECTION instead.
Some facts and opinions
I first read a Larry Williams book about twenty five years ago.
I own two of his books.
I subscribed to his commodities newsletter for a year.
I have not attended one of his seminars.
Here are my experiences:
1. His books are informative and helpful for beginners.
2. During the year I subscribed to his newsletter with nightly telephone updates, the value of a fully invested account doubled.
I admit that 50% of his profits that year came from coffee, so if you did not trade his full basket of recommended commodities and stock futures (10 positions), you would not have made +100%.
3. I retired 5 years ago and now trade full time. My system has been profitable all five years. Based on initial learning from
Larry Williams and my own research, my trading system has four signals only:
Entry number 1: from Larry Williams
Entry number 2: my own research based on Welles Wilder.
Exit number 1: based on an article in Futures magazine.
Exit number 2: based on an article in Stocks and Commodities magazine.
I have two very sophisticated active trading friends. We have reached the following conclusions:
- short term momentum trading can be predictable and profitable.
- no one can predict the long term. Not Larry Williams, Harry Dent, the Aden sisters, or Robert Precther. No one.
Try reverse trades
Selling book for idiots
Larry Williams forcast of the DJIA 2013
I'll only comment on his 2013 forcast of the DJIA. He said the DJIA would start the year with a decline, a nasty tumble that will end in the middle of March. The low for the year will most likely be made at this time. Now look at a chart of the DJIA and compare it with his forecast. He missed this one. Hey, Larry is a great guy and has contributed many benefical insights into the markets. Nobody gets it right everytime. After all these years Larry's still in the trenches diggin up those nuggets!
the thing with Larry He has monster years every 10 years or so (73 87 97 04) which generates publicity etc. but then he goes into a drought for 3-4 years. Hard to follow and make money. Most probably lose money. Except Larry and Louise, they rake in subscriptions. They spend a good deal of money on banner ads and pay per click ads. That says a lot. True money making enterprises are involved in these web tactics. He was big in to Trade Navigator then got a better deal with another firm. Bye bye Glen! He reminds me of Jake Bernstein! Sad.
Really interesting post from Elitetrader.com about Larry's Million dollar win in the Robbins trading championship. One he could replicate ever again!
Most don't know he was running a pooled account then and losing money at the same time.
Please read this post carefully and in its entirety.
You suggested I conduct my own research, and I did. I spoke with an enforcement attorney at the NFA and discussed the matter. I read him the NFA’s Findings and Conclusion, as quoted in William Gallacher’s book “Winner Take All.”
The quote, you will recall from page 16 of this thread is as follows:
Findings and Conclusion:
”There is no question that Mr. Williams's personal trading accounts had a material effect upon his composite trading performance. The record reflects that for the first quarter of 1987, Mr. Williams's composite performance showed a loss of $6,122,281, while at the same time Mr. Williams's personal accounts experienced a gain of $902,599. The Panel finds that the fact Mr. Williams was making significant gains while managed customer accounts were suffering considerable losses would be a material fact which a potential customer would need to know in order to make a fully reasoned decision.”
The enforcement attorney advised that, with the exception of a word or two, the quote was accurate, and that it was representative of the findings. Because I do not have a fax machine, the full text of the case is being sent to me by mail, as it is a matter of public record. Unfortunately, the full text of any case is not available on the Internet as a matter of course. However, I was also advised that anyone could get the full text by going to a local library and looking at the annual NFA Manual published by Warren Gorham Lamont Publishing. Although annual publication of this manual ceased in 1993, you will be able to find the Conclusion in question by consulting the appropriate year. Remember, the incident in question occurred in 1987, but dragged on to 1990 with the appeals process. Therefore, you may wish to check the manuals for that entire period. I, on the other hand, will be receiving my copy in the mail. Perhaps I will be able to e-mail it to you in due course, but I think it would be better if you get it from an independent source since you probably would not fully trust what I would send you.
Now that we have established that Mr. Gallacher’s quoted reference was valid, let us proceed. However…
Before we begin, it is essential to understand that what I am going to explain to you is NOT to be construed as a statement of fact. Rather, what I will present to you is nothing more than a HYPOTHESIS for educational and illustrative purposes only. Coincidentally, this hypothesis (among potentially many others) just happens to fit the facts that are known.
To begin, let us review the few facts that are known.
1. During the course of the contest in 1987, Larry’s composite performance showed a loss of $6,122,281 while his personal accounts experienced a gain of $902,599, as outlined in the NFA’s Findings and Conclusions.
2. As explained in a fair amount of detail in William Gallacher’s book, Winner Take All, Larry appeared to have an interesting relationship with the contest sponsoring broker, Robbins Trading Co. It appeared to be something other than fully arm’s length. (Heck, they even got fined together.)
3. Larry’s accounts and those of his managed accounts were evidently not segregated.
Of course, we could just leave it at that, but let us hypothesize, solely for educational and illustrative purposes. Just for fun. One hypothesis for the given set of known facts is that the proverbial fox was guarding the henhouse. And at the end of guard duty, the henhouse is empty (to the tune of millions of dollars), while the fox is fat and full ($902,599, as at the time of the NFA’s investigation).
Consider two parallels. Nick Leeson was thought to be an outstanding trader because he secretly hid his mounting losses in a bogus client account. He had hoped he would be able to reverse the damage with some good trades before he was found out. And so, things seemed to be going well until the house of cards folded, and Barings along with it. Enron’s traders were considered to be the best in the business because no one knew that their losses were being parceled off into a complex labyrinth of “other” companies/partnerships. (Or something like that.) What maintained the illusion in both cases was an opportunity to take credit for winnings and pass off the losses. And what is interesting to note is that the eventual losses that were incurred far exceeded the presumed profits in both of these cases. This suggests that Nick Leeson and the aggregate of Enron traders were nowhere close to being even break-even traders, let alone profitable.
And so it is with our entirely hypothetical scenario (presented solely for educational and illustrative purposes) for Larry. Hypothetically, it apparently required losses in the several-million-dollar range in the unsegregated managed accounts to generate profits in the million-dollar range. Some people might think that these are two separate and independent events when, under this plausible albeit hypothetical scenario, they are simply different sides of the same coin: the superb returns are a result of funneling most of the losses elsewhere. Here we have a trader with unsegregated accounts and a seemingly close relationship with his broker. How difficult would it have been, hypothetically speaking of course, to initiate a trade and wait a while to see if it would move in the right direction before directing ownership of that trade to either his personal account or the managed accounts? Remember, we are talking about a hypothetically less-than-arm’s-length relationship with a broker who is no stranger to the NFA. So, let’s say Larry goes long the S&P 500 futures contract. He waits a while. If the price begins to go up, he assigns it to his account. If price goes down, how passes it off to the managed accounts. You can be sure that the managed account clients will not be monitoring performance on a trade-by-trade basis. All they get are periodic and disappointing summaries. And you will recall that in those days, time stamping of transactions was an issue,* which also allowed for some additional maneuverability among hypothetically willing conspirators. But we’re just hypothesizing here. (However, for your information, this would NOT be the first time such a thing happened in the trading world.)
That was in 1987. In July 1988, the Larry Williams Financial Strategy Fund was launched, followed in March 1989 by the World Cup Championship Fund, managed by Larry Williams, Jake Bernstein and two other “traders.” The 1988 fund lost more than 50% of its clients’ equity in barely one year, as reported in the October 1989 issue of Futures magazine. The 1989 fund also lost more than half of its original equity by May 1990. So, Larry tried at least 3 different times to manage client money with surprisingly disastrous results. These are facts.
Coming back to our ongoing hypothesis (presented solely for educational and illustrative purposes and not to be construed as statements of fact), one wonders why Larry has not entered the contest again. After all, the contest his marketing material keeps harping on took place almost 20 years ago. Wouldn’t it be nice if he entered it again just to reassure us that he has still “got it?” Of course, under our proposed hypothesis, he would have to also manage client money (into the ground) simultaneously in order to generate such lofty returns in his own account. Is managed money perhaps difficult to come by after disaster followed by disaster? But that is the necessary opposite side of the coin, as presented in the above hypothesis. Or is it a question of pattern. After all, the NFA got wind of the diametrically opposed returns in personal and managed accounts the first time around. Would trying it again and creating the same pattern of significant personal gains accompanied by simultaneous disastrous managed account losses be just a little “too much?” We can only speculate under the scenario of our proposed hypothesis.
END OF PART 1
What about his daughter, the actress Michelle? She was emancipated from the family at 15, suggesting some lack of family feeling. Yet she entered the contest and won with a gain of ten times her investment. Could the methods work on a small scale whereas not on the bigger scale of a fund?
Larry Williams is God
No foundation, no evidence. Larry spends a LOT of money on Search Engine ads, Pay per click. That tells you something! If you know the web business.
You are right. He obviously can't call the moves any longer if he could at all during his career. His story is like most, when he knocks it out of the park, he sells his story, when he drifts or slips in to the BIG draw down, he is like the rest, excuses and ramblings, but nothing brings back your money. He just wants you to renew your subscription, he gets his money. I would love for him to post his tax returns on his I Really trade site. He used to post returns, but no longer. Mainly an author, not much more. His wife Louise latched on to him for his money. Sad.Both are really nice people. I know, I have met them at his $5000 seminars which are the tell all, until a year or two later when he "tells all again" and doesn't mention the signals he sold in the last seminar. Ridiculous that I fell for it!.And about 400 others at each event.
Congrats to Larry
Sure are a lot of haters on here. Probably because you cannot conceive that somebody like Larry or anyone else can achieve such incredible results while you can't or should say have not. I personally have not read Larry's material. I strictly create my own strategies.
The math is simple a few trades a day risking 1% of your account per trade with a 66% win ratio while compounding daily can result into over a 1000% yearly returns. Win Ratio is relative to risk reward. I keep things simple even risk reward with a higher win ratio. A real simple set up with an edge is all that's needed.
I believe the edge is the easy part. Sticking to correct money management and doing what you know works is the hard part.
To make a million dollars trading it kind of goes like so. You lose 9 million and you make 10 million.
Losses are part of the game when you can get past your losses you will be on your way.
Congrats to Larry. The hard work that you have put into this wonderful competitive game of trading is highly respected by myself and many others.
You haven't read Larry, then what makes your opinion worth anything?
His history is scattered. When he wins, he puts on another webinar, when he loses, he sells Larry TV which really doesn't have much merit. It is relatively cheap, but so is the advice. Nothing is a sure thing and Larry isn't either. Nice guy though! I wish him well, but not with my money. Subscriptions make more money than trading. Just look at all the traders newsletters on the market. If Larry wants to come clean, he should post tax returns for 40 years.At least the trading schedule D
One rule doesn't justify subscription rates that don't produce results. Check out his BIG FISH REPORT. That made him a bundle of money quickly, then the firm he was involved with and promoting went bankrupt and he used that as an excuse to terminate the program. It was really because nearly every trade was a loser and not a small loser.
The only money Larry has every made is selling his books,newsletters and seminars.
The claim to fame of winning various virtual trading competitions is questionable - like how many accounts did you have and did not Robbins have a deal with you Larry?
As or the IRS, they where investigating your seminar and product sales, not your multi million trading profits.... maybe because you never made any money trading.
Put prove us wrong, show us your real trading accounts?
Agree, his real money has been made selling stuff. Like all traders, we have a great run and make big money, but then see it all go down the toilet. He has done the same but promotes the good, and leaves the bad to subscribers when the hand over money. Then they lose a ton of money and he sells another program that will be better.
You attended several seminars and paid BIG money to do so, BUT have you made money? Most likely no! He tried setting up a portion of his site to show the stories of "people who paid great amounts of money to learn and their success stories" Obviously he didn't receive feedback and never posted that section on his site. His way of proving that he had something, he didn't!
Not banks, but subscribers.
Larry, are you up late posting online again?
To set the record straight on my tax charges; on the third day of trial, yes I went to trial instead of rolling over, the Department of Justice dropped ALL CHARGES.
Why someone would slander me by saying I am crooked is beyond me. IF that is a true charge, please just present the evidence
There is none.
It isn't about tax charges Larry, it is about the lack of performance. Show your gains on your tax returns for the past 2 dozen years, not counting subscriptions.
Also show how much you spend on pay per click web advertising each year. That would be interesting.
Not a crooked trader, but a material seller, nothing more, nothing less.
He sells a dream through classes, seminars and books, newsletters. The rest? You are on your own. He doesn't make money consistently, if he did, he would be "really Trading" and not hawking systems and advice. Plain and simple.
Maybe he is still in the trenches because of subscriptions and book sales?
I have followed him. He is a really nice guy, but...like all traders, has good runs and horrible runs. I have seen both and it cost a lot of money. More than the good ones. Unfortunately, I didn't have a subscription revenue stream to cover my losses.